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It all comes down to this...the final round of the Motley Fool Rule Breaker Investing March Market Cap Showdown! Defending Champion Andy Cross has held off all contenders and pretenders, but game show survivor Emily Flippen is not one to back down from a challenge. Who will win the crown for 2025? We're betting on you to come out smarter, happier, and richer as we all play and learn together!
To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. When you're ready to invest, check out this top 10 list of stocks to buy.
A full transcript is below.
Ever feel like you missed the boat in buying the most successful stocks? Then you’ll want to hear this.
On rare occasions, our expert team of analysts issues a “Double Down” stock recommendation for companies that they think are about to pop. If you’re worried you’ve already missed your chance to invest, now is the best time to buy before it’s too late. And the numbers speak for themselves:
Right now, we’re issuing “Double Down” alerts for three incredible companies, and there may not be another chance like this anytime soon.
*Stock Advisor returns as of March 24, 2025
This video was recorded on March 19, 2025
David Gardner: Round 1 of our March Market Cap Madness final four could not have been closer. Two weeks ago, defending world champion Andy Cross needed to go to Tie Breakers to defeat Matt Argersinger 6-5. Last week, Emily Flippen needed to go to tie breakers to hold off Bill Barker 6-5. Such is the Madness of March. This week is for all the Marbles. Andy Cross is back. Emily Flippen is back. And here you are. You're back, too, for the March Market Cap Madness World Championships. Are you ready to get your market caps on? Buckle up only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing. It's our March Market Cap Madness World Championship final. With me in studio are Andy Cross and Emily Flippen with their jester shaped thinking caps on to see who can out market cap the other for the grand prize. Andy, Emily, and you, the third player to us the most important is you. You're playing along, too, with your spouse or partner, your kids or your stock market loving mates who group around the office water cooler. As we get ready to crank up our market cap game show music, let me just briefly remind, especially our listeners, new players this week, how this game works. I'll be mentioning a stock.
Neither Andy nor Emily knows what stock is coming. I'll turn to one of them to talk a bit about whatever stock they didn't know was coming, and that Fool will do their best to state a numerical range within which the market cap, the value of that company, falls. Now the other contestant and you playing at home, will simply say, I agree, meaning that's accurate. The stocks value falls inside that stated range, or I disagree, I think it's outside that range so you simply agree or disagree, and if you get it right, give yourself a +1. That's the Market Cap Game Show. We're focused on the real market caps of real stocks recording as of Friday morning around 11:00 A.M. March 14th, a few days earlier than usual to accommodate spring break schedules.
Please note side note that these market caps could change a bit by the time you're hearing this on Wednesday, March 19th. Players at home score along with us, but double check your math if you want to play it live. As of the day, this comes out Wednesday, March 19th, a perfect score in the Market Cap Game Show would be 10. When he's not tossing ceremonial first pitches, judging chili cook offs or dazzling school assemblies with motivational pep talks just a taste of the glamorous duties that come with being the Market Cap Game Show's reigning world champion. Andy Cross works on Stock Advisor backstage and with my brother Tom Gardner on his everlasting services like Hidden Gems. Oh, and by the way, Andy's the Motley Fools Chief Investment Officer, where he's tasked with helping our investment teams produce the best guidance and experience for you, our members and listeners. Oh, and by the way, he's pretty good at this game. Welcome, Andy.
Andy Cross: Hi, David. Hi, Emily. I just got to say that Happy Pie Day to everyone, March 14.
David Gardner: You're right. Now, as this airs, that's five days ago. For most of our listener base right now, you're wishing them Happy Pie Day five days ago.
Andy Cross: I do want to say I do have my new pie socks on.
David Gardner: No way.
Andy Cross: With all the pie digits, up to a certain number. Now, I cannot get past 3.114, but I'm hoping that these digits will give me some inspiration for the Market Cap Game Show today because my competitive nature's against a very astute competitor and herself, Emily Flippen.
Emily Flippen: I will say, knowing this new piece of information about Andy, I want to suggest that for any potential tie breakers today, we go to who can recite the most digits of five?
David Gardner: 3.1415.
Emily Flippen: That's as far as I got.
David Gardner: But Andy can just look down at his socks so we can't go there. Let's not have a tie breaker. I'm sick of tie breakers. Let's just win this out right. Andy, let me turn to you for stock Number 1. Has the company's text message or push notification ever genuinely delighted you or conversely made you want to delete the app forever?
Andy Cross: David, I can't say something specifically comes to mind, so I got to say no.
David Gardner: Nobody in your mind is doing it really right right now or not for you when it comes to customer engagement and personalized communication.
Andy Cross: Maybe I'm just not using text message enough on certain applications, but I can't say anything jumps to mind.
David Gardner: Let me try the corporate tag line on you, then, Andy. This is the big opening line on stock Number 1's website. You ready?
Andy Cross: I'm ready.
David Gardner: There's never been a better time to be a better marketer. I'm not quizzy what the company is. I'm asking, is that a good tag line?
Andy Cross: I don't think so. I'm giving that a five out of 10, Dave.
David Gardner: Well, Braze's ticker symbol BRZE offers a customer engagement platform that helps brands build meaningful connections. I'm going to say, with some people, anyway.
Andy Cross: Not me, but apparently some people. Yes.
David Gardner: Ticker symbol BRZE. Andy, is this a company you've ever heard of before?
Andy Cross: I have heard of Braze. I believe we use them at the Motley Fool.
David Gardner: Okay, then. In that case, Andy, let me turn to you and ask you, what is your stated market cap range for Braze Inc, ticker symbol BRZE. It's a breeze.
Andy Cross: Now, knowing of the company, knowing much about the market cap and the ticker are two different things, David. But I think this is a relatively small company. I'm going to say, 2.9 billion to four billion.
David Gardner: Emily, Andy said 2.9 billion to four billion dollars. Players at home, Emily Flippen, do you want to agree with Andy's market cap range, 2.9-4.0 or disagree?
Emily Flippen: I was really hoping during your open there, David, that this was going in the direction of Twilio, a similar communications company that I think I know much better than Braze. That being said, I did say something during my time on Survivor, which didn't do wonders for me on the TV show, but I'm hoping it'll do better for me here, which is you have to risk it for the biscuit. I'm fearful that Andy's range is fairly accurate. It's a fairly tight range for a company that he seems to be claiming it is not all that familiar with. But I feel like Braze is potentially smaller than the bottom side of that range. I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Players at home Emily disagreed. What did you do? If you disagreed give yourself a -1. Unfortunately, you should have agreed because Andy nailed it. $3.51 billion definitely within, almost right at the midpoint of Andy's 2.9-4.0 range score +1 for Andy Cross. Any thoughts about Braze?
Andy Cross: I just thought it was less than five billion, and for some reason, I went a little bit less than three, and that was it.
David Gardner: You were close either way, Emily, and players at home that was an excellent start. The company's original name. Check it was get this Appboy.
Emily Flippen: Oh, well, at least they improved upon that.
David Gardner: I was imagining if we were to recommend that stock to our members and it's like, hey, honey, yeah, just put part of our early retirement hopes in a new stock. Appboy.
Emily Flippen: The question is, is it better than AppLovin?
David Gardner: Well, I actually think AppLovin exceeds Appboy, just in the grand scheme. But this is all part of history now because in 2017, they changed their name to Braze went public in 2021. The stock was first picked by Motley Fool Rule Breakers in July of 2022. It's down 20%. The market's up 35%, so that one's been a loser over about three years now. But undaunted, the team re upped the stock again in December of that ugly. Remember, 2022 ugly year. That pick is now up 30%. That's about in line with the market. It's still early days here. Invest for at least three years.
That anyway, is, for me, habit Number 3 of the Rule Breaker Investor. Yeah. Let's not score things too short, too narrow. Let's invest. Andy Cross one, Emily Flippen zero. Let's move on to stock Number 2. Emily Flippen is an advisor at The Fool, where she helps lead the Stock Advisor team with fundamental research on companies, particularly those that exemplify David's six traits of a Rule Breaker stock. Outside of her work at The Fool, Emily costarred on Season 45 of Survivor, which she just lightly referenced. Going to risk it for the biscuit?
Emily Flippen: Maybe not moving forward. I think fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, I had to take credit for this.
David Gardner: Well, we shall see. Emily continues to enjoy her failed attempts to train her cats. Now, I did reference that when you were on last week, Emily, but let me just dive in quickly there. What's happening?
Emily Flippen: I have two cats, and each of them problematic in their own ways. But one of which is, as we've discovered, incredibly territorial. Nothing medically wrong with him, but if he can pee on something, he will find a way to pee on it. We've been in a year plus long journey and attempting to positively reinforce the decision not to pee outside of the litter box very unsuccessfully so far.
David Gardner: Cat loving. Cat boy. Let's move on. Emily, this is your first shot at a world championship. Welcome.
Emily Flippen: Thank you. Good to be here.
David Gardner: Stock Number 2. Emily, are you a Jason Statham fan?
Emily Flippen: I couldn't even tell you if that's a singer, an actor, a politician.
David Gardner: Excellent. Let me keep going. What about Gal Gadot?
Emily Flippen: Now, that is a name I do recognize. She's Wonder Woman.
David Gardner: Yeah, among other things. Do you happen to remember Jason Statham and Gal Gadot appearing in this company's Super Bowl ad? They appeared together in the year 2017?
Emily Flippen: See, now, that would require me to really watch sports. The truth is, when I go to Super Bowl parties, I am sitting next to the pizza, and the wings and paying as least attention possible to the TV.
David Gardner: Well, in this ad, it's like at a bar, and it turns into a rough him up bar fight scene. You can imagine Statham and Gadot knocking people out. At the end of the ad, the company's tag line airs, create your stunning website today. It's easy and free. Israelbasedwix.com is the company we're talking about having hired Statham and Gadot eight years ago for that Super Bowl ad. Emily, do you have any facility or familiarity with this company?
Emily Flippen: A little bit, actually. During my early days here at The Fool, our CEO, your brother Tom Gardner had first recommended Wix, I believe, and me being the angry contrarian that I am, remember, I went to a meeting where people were understandably positive on the stock, and then I decided to, I don't know, give a five, 10 minutes feel about how I thought websites were increasingly commoditized. If I'm not mistaken, I think Wix has gone on to prove me wrong in that regard.
David Gardner: Well, it proved you wrong briefly, but I think it's proved you right over time, but we'll get into that in a sec. Let me turn back to you, Emily. Oh, but wait. We're not just turning to Emily because this is a throwdown round. To remind our players at home, stock Number 2 is a throwdown. Both Emily and Andy will now write down their market cap range for wix.comlimited. Ticker symbol WIX. Pencils out Fools. All you have to do as a player at home is once Emily and Andy state their market caps, you decide which one you want to go with? Does Emily's range seem more plausible to you or does Andy's? You just say Emily or Andy, and if you guess right, give yourself a point. Now, there's a chance, by the way, they'll both be right, especially if they use wide ranges. If they're both right, the tighter range wins the point.
If they're both wrong, and it does happen. In fact, it happened last week in a controversial moment. If they're both wrong, in that case, listen to me carefully, Bill Barker. Whoever's nearest parameter is closer to the actual market cap gets +1. Again, this is a throwdown. We do this twice every show stock Number 2, wix.comlimited. Emily, I'm going to turn to you first. What is your market cap range for WIX?
Emily Flippen: I almost lost the last Market Cap Game Show by giving ranges that were simply too wide. I feel fairly confident when I say that, generally speaking, I think Wix is around a $10,000,000,000 company. Within that, it could be eight. It could be 12. But I'm going to, for the sake of not losing this, again, give a tight range of 9.5-11 billion.
David Gardner: 9.5 billion to 11 billion. Andy, what did you write down?
Andy Cross: I hope we're a little bit smaller than that because I'm going 6-10 billion.
David Gardner: Six billion to 10 billion. Players at home you now have a choice. Do you want to go with Emily 9.5-11 or Andy 6-10? I'm going to give you three seconds, say their name out loud, three, two, one. You're locked in. I need to announce ahead of time, they both nailed it, but Emily had the far tighter range of 9.5-11 billion wix.comlimited $9.72 billion, +1 to Emily. Emily, the low end of your range, 9.5.
Emily Flippen: Getting a little scarily close there. Maybe I overcompensated with the tightness of that range.
David Gardner: Risking it for the biscuit?
Emily Flippen: Risking it for the biscuit, and I get to eat this time.
David Gardner: Before we move on to stock Number 3, I'll just mention, yeah, there was a period in 2018, 19. My brother Tom, a bunch of Fool services all took a liking to this stock around $100 a share. Then there was a period in 2020, 2021, where a bunch more Fool services all liked it closer to $250 a share. Stock is around 170 today, so those 2018 picks look a lot better, as you might imagine than the 2021 ones. Just since this January, big decline in stock from 240-170, although I would like to mention that it's along with a lot of other I peaked earlier this year, stocks. That's wix.com. Let's move on to stock Number 3. We have a tie game. Andy, 1. Emily 1, what about you at home? Zero, 1 or 2? Andy Cross, have you ever had a good sounding thesis for a stock you were researching and picking, and maybe you even got it generally right. But for other reasons, stock didn't pan out years and years later, disappointment.
Andy Cross: Sure. David, I think a lot of times, unfortunately, we think we have all the right answers, but this comes with investing, and it doesn't work out, even though the businesses can continue to do well. It's like a company I think about PubMatic, an advertising company, in a very competitive space, but they have a founder-led business, they own a lot of their own IP, it's profitable, and that stock at various points just has not worked out for us long term. I still am encouraged by its prospects, but that one has just been one of the ones that I've just, and including more recently, it's just been a disappointment.
David Gardner: I'd say, anyone who has invested over any meaningful period of time, at least three years, probably has one or more stocks that we've thought, yeah, I think I know where this is headed. You were right about the world, but for whatever reason, the stock didn't go your. By the way, it can work out the other way, sometimes, too. It can surprise you the upside. For me, anyway, Priceline all of a sudden morphed into Booking, all of a sudden became a world beater from the William Shatner sung ad jingles, which I think were Super Bowl ads back in the day themselves. Anyway, Andy, Stock Number 3, for me, is one of these kinds of stocks. It was 2012. I was like, natural gas. The future is going to be natural gas. There will be more demand for natural gas, and in fact, there has been. This company is a leading US pipeline company for natural gas.
It was a dividend play as much as anything. It was paying, back when I recommended it in 2012, a 4% dividend yield, and guess what? Thirteen years later, it has a 4% dividend yield today. The problem is the stock is actually below where it was back then. Kinder Morgan, ticker symbol KMI is Stock Number 3. Andy and Emily, I see you both nodding a little bit. Clearly, I'm not surprising you with something you've never heard of.
Andy Cross: Oh, that's true. I know we both have heard of it. I'm just thinking about how big it is now because it has been on our scorecard for a long time.
Emily Flippen: Well, Kinder Morgan, actually, we had it in Stock Advisor. I believe it was a recommendation from both Tom on team Hidden Gems, as well as you, David.
David Gardner: That's true. I was 2012. Tom, I think, recommended in 2015.
Emily Flippen: Yes. While I do think you're right, thesis was still there and still continues to be there for the company. A great US-based pipeline player, still a great dividend-based investment for investors looking for yield. We ultimately did decide to sell it at the end of last year out of Stock Advisor, both of those positions, in part just because we thought there were better from a capital gains perspective, better opportunities for investors looking to beat the market.
David Gardner: I think you are right. We're going to talk about the stock in just a sec. But let me turn back now to Andy. Andy, what is your stated market cap range for Stock Number 3, Kinder Morgan, ticker symbol KMI?
Andy Cross: None of this is really helping me think through the market.
David Gardner: [inaudible] .
Andy Cross: I appreciate it. I'm going to say between $5-$8 billion.
David Gardner: $5-$8 billion. Emily Flippen, players at home, do you want to agree or disagree?
Emily Flippen: Once again, I'm having service now flashbacks, where I could be off by a factor of something sizable here, but I think Kinder Morgan is much larger than that. I almost want to say that I think Kinder Morgan is getting near 100 billion. I could be entirely off base. I get it. I said at the beginning of the show, I'll say it again, off by hundreds of billion is oftentimes par for the course for me, but because my initial inclination is to think that Kinder Morgan is much larger than that, I am going to disagree.
David Gardner: All right. Emily has disagreed. You at home? I hear you. If you disagreed with Emily, give yourself a plus one. Kinder Morgan is substantially bigger. This is a company, again, that I recommended 13 years ago. It's underperformed over time, and yet, it always has been pretty big. It lives in the midstream between the upstream of oil discovery, gas discovery where they're drilling, and then the ones that really provide it to us to the power companies, etc., they are the pipelines. $59.94 billion, just short of 60 billion. Emily, with your comments, you pretty much nailed it.
Emily Flippen: Well, again, off by a factor of 40 billion there, but I'll take the win.
David Gardner: The stock was at $35 a share in 2012. As we mentioned, Tom took a liking at 40 in 2015. It was crushed down from our cost basis in the high 30s to just $15 a share a year later. That was the end of 2016. It's rattled around between 15-25 over the eight years since, continuing to pay that 4% dividend. It's not a very good stock pick on my part. Let's move on to Stock Number 4. Emily two, Andy one. Emily, your exercise regimen, please, what is you at your best? Maybe a tip we can all learn from. Do you have a guilty pleasure you'd like to share that may just be undermining your health?
Emily Flippen: Oh, I love this. I have more guilty pleasures undermining my health than I could even list off here, but the most obvious one is my terrible addiction to Diet Coke. I have tried for years and years to kick that diet soda addiction, but I always managed to relapse. That being said, I do tell myself that I make it up in occasional very light jogs, and I have been trying to weightlift very recently, just over the course of the past month, and I'm realizing I hate it. I hate it so much. I'd rather be doing cardio any day of the week.
David Gardner: Well, it was fashionable a few years ago, Emily. Did you ever find yourself purchasing a branded exercise bike for your home and follow along with glam celebrity coaches via remote video hookup?
Emily Flippen: Yeah, there's a certain level of public embarrassment you expect when you come onto the Market Cap Game Show. This is not what I was expecting. But the answer is yes, David. Although I will say, I think Peloton is probably coming to people's minds. I was much too cheap for the Peloton. I went with the off-brand, I should say, alternative brand, NordicTrack, and yes, of course, this was during the pandemic.
David Gardner: All right. Yes, of course, we are talking about Peloton Interactive, ticker symbol PTON. I hate this week's show cause it has some of my worst personal picks I've ever made for our services. This being one of them. We'll talk about that in a sec. Emily, your stated market cap range these days for Peloton Interactive, ticker symbol, PTON.
Emily Flippen: I might be setting myself up for a Kinder Morgan fall here. I think Peloton is a much smaller company, and I do not think this business has, well, I know there has been some rebound from its lows, I think from the perspective of a market cap, I don't think we're looking at a multibillion-dollar company here. I'm inclined to say that Peloton's market cap is somewhere between 1-3 billion.
David Gardner: One billion dollars to $3 billion. Andy, have you ever made a purchase from peloton.com?
Andy Cross: I have not. I have plenty of exercise guilt, but one of buying the Peloton and having it sit in the corner is not one of them.
David Gardner: Andy, I will say, and you and I are about the same age, you're in excellent shape, may I say? How do you do this?
Andy Cross: Well, I do cycle, indoor cycling, but I do it on a bike trainer.
David Gardner: But wait, you don't want to subscribe on a monthly basis to glam celebrity coaches who are talking you through imagined landscapes?
Andy Cross: Full disclosure, I do subscribe to some exercise cycling apps just not the Peloton one.
David Gardner: Well, Emily said $1-$3 billion, Andy, you're down 2-1. No pressure on you, this is only the World Championships. This is only Stock Number 4. Do you want to agree with Emily's range or disagree with Emily's range?
Andy Cross: I think she's pretty close with this range, but I actually think it's a sub $1 billion company now these days, so I'm going to disagree with Emily.
David Gardner: Andy has disagreed. Player at home? You just did that. Andy you should have agreed with Emily's range because it's $2.59 billion. The company, it's made a little bit of a rebound. It dropped. Let's just cover the stock really quickly. I recommended this stock for Rule Breakers at $35 a share in 2019. Get this, fast forward two years, it's gone from 35 to 250. It's a seven-bagger in two years COVID peak. As is now well known, it was a massive beneficiary of that COVID peak. By 2022, one year later, our seven-bagger had dropped down below our $35 cost. En route, by the way, to touching $3 a share within the last couple of years down 90% from our $35 cost basis, that was a seven-bagger in its first two years. This is just an astonishingly volatile and ultimately disappointing stock. Today, the stock is, by the way, around six, so doubling up from its low lows, but having touched 10 in recent months off that too. Emily, chalk it up. It's Emily three, Andy one.
Emily Flippen: A lot of luck involved in that. When I was guessing, as I'm saying, the words 1-3 billion, it's occurring to me. Is this a $10 billion company now? To be honest, the reinforcement from Andy that this is potentially a very small-cap company now was much appreciated. But I am surprised that it is still within my range, but much larger than I expected, even within that range.
Andy Cross: When you said one to three, I was thinking closer to the one side, then I thought, gosh, it really has struggled, and so that's why I went a little bit on the smaller side. I'm glad for those who still are hanging on and own it that it has rebounded off those lows. But clearly, for this game, I was more focused on those lows than where it is today.
David Gardner: It is interesting, Andy and Emily. When you think about just the brand value of Peloton, it is a very well-known brand, and sometimes there's no specific math or any golden ratio I'm about to throw down here. But when you see a company with a market cap that seems not that far off what I would think it's brand recognition, and I would even say it's an appreciated brand. I was having fun. There's been some questionable advertising they've done. There's been some cynicism around Peloton. But it stands for good things, it's doing good things in the world, and just at a $2 1/2 billion market cap, I think the brand's worth about that much.
Andy Cross: That's a very expensive coat rack for some people [laughs] in their office.
David Gardner: Let's move on to Stock Number 5. Turning back to you now, Andy. Now, earlier you talked about how notifications, messaging from companies, doesn't really enter your world too much. You're neither particularly annoyed nor overjoyed by any notifications you're receiving it.
Andy Cross: Definitely not overjoyed. Although I am just very impressed, especially with the world of AI, just the way that firms can automatically communicate. I think that's impressive, but it doesn't bring me joy, David.
David Gardner: Well said. Now, let's stick with a smartphone for sec here, Andy. Are you someone who eagerly updates your smartphone the moment a new model comes out?
Andy Cross: One hundred percent.
David Gardner: I don't see your phone out because we can't look at things like phones, we're playing the Market Cap Game Show in a soundproof, vision proof, I don't know what that means, booth. But, Andy, somewhere probably in your back pocket, what model of phone are you using these days?
Andy Cross: Just to admit my mistake here is, I do not update my phone, David, very often, I thought you meant update the software to the phone.
David Gardner: Well, and that happens so much more frequently. I understand why you would think that. But no, I was actually thinking iPhone 14, iPhone 15, etc. Do you jump out and get the new model when it comes down?
Andy Cross: I do not. However, I do have to say, I have the most latest iPhone only because my youngest daughter asked Santa to deliver one for me.
David Gardner: Santa and his Wiley ways. Emily, just turning to you briefly, what model are you rocking these days? Do you feel pressure when Apple has that new conference or that new marketing thing with the season to get the new thing?
Emily Flippen: I've never felt that before, and I'm the type of person, I take such terrible care of the stuff that I own that I have only up until the last two months purchased used iPhones before. In the last two months, my iPhone did break, and I did make the decision to purchase also a new iPhone 16. I am also sitting on a new model phone, and it is the first time I've ever done that in my life.
David Gardner: You both are a few cycles ahead of me. So well done. But let me get right back to it, Andy. Let's get inside the phone a little bit. Have you ever cracked open one of your phones and just investigated what's going on inside, maybe with a microscope, looking for some of the brands and doodads you can find, I don't know, inside your brand new iPhone that for some reason, you cracked open?
Andy Cross: David, the only reason I would crack open my phone is if it fell off some high building because I am not that technologically savvy.
David Gardner: Well, had you done so, you might have seen Applied Materials. A very long-standing, well-known company integrally involved in tiny chips in many things around us.
Oh, my gosh, it's throwdown Stock Number 2. This will be the final throwdown of our World Championships for Stock Number 3. Emily's body language, I won't say what it is because that would tilt our listeners, and that's not fair to Emily. I'll just reiterate that both Andy and Emily have their pencils out. They are right now writing down their stated market cap range for Applied Materials, ticker symbol AMAT. A reminder once they're ready, they're each going to give their range. You simply say, Andy or Emily. If you get it right, if they got it right, you give yourself a plus one. Turning back to you first now, Andy, what is your stated market cap range for Applied Materials?
Andy Cross: David, I'm going to say between 65-85 billion.
David Gardner: Sixty-five to 85 billion. Emily, what did you write down?
Emily Flippen: I was really looking forward to Andy having to give the range and for me to have that 50% chance by just blindly guessing, agree or disagree, but, of course, it has to be a throwdown.
David Gardner: It had to be a throwdown.
Emily Flippen: [laughs] I am actually guessing, not too far off base here from what Andy estimated, from 100-170 billion.
David Gardner: One hundred to $170 billion. Players at home. I'm going to give you three seconds. Call out Andy or Emily. Who do you agree with? Three, 2, 1. If you said, Emily, give yourself a plus one. This is a pretty large, successful, long-standing company, and I regret. I'm the guy picking Kinder Morgan and Peloton and I'm missing Applied Materials. We're going to talk about that in a sec. But let's be clear. The market cap for Applied Materials, $124.82 billion, so inside Emily's range of 100-170, Emily, you're OK sometimes not just saying agree or disagree.
Emily Flippen: Sometimes, I guess I am, I will say. When you say Apple, I just thought to myself, well, I have to go north of 100 billion if they're dealing with Apple, right?
David Gardner: Right. Our site, by the way, says that this stock, ticker symbol AMAT, since its IPO, I'm going to assume we have this right, but maybe we rounded it wrong is up 268,869.44%. It was an early IPO for a little thing called the National Association of Securities Dealers Automated Quotations, one of NASDAQ's earlier IPOs. Yeah, NASDAQ in 1972. This is one of the great companies of California Silicon Valley and semiconductors. Why didn't I pick the stock? By the way, you've never missed great companies. You can always buy them today. Not saying you should run out and buy Applied Materials, but you could do worse. By my count, it's Emily four, Andy one. By the way, each of the final four matches had a 4-1 score and a comeback in the second half. But it is halftime. Now, in the past, we've had marching bands, we've had music concerts for our halftimes. I can't remember. Rick, did we once have a magician?
But this year is special. It's 2025. As I shared at the start of the year, my 2025 book Rule Breaker Investing is available for pre-order now. After 30 years of stock picking, this is my magnum opus. It's a lifetime of lessons distilled into one definitive guide. Now, each week, until the book launches this summer, I'm sharing a random excerpt. We break open the book to a random page, I read a few sentences. Let's do it. It's a brief, dramatic reading for your halftime entertainment. Here's this week's page Breaker preview three sentences from Chapter 15, and I quote, "Speaking of circles, Warren Buffett has famously championed a related idea, one's circle of competence. An imaginary perimeter drawn around yourself, your circle of competence contains inside it, all the things that you know, love, and care about, areas where you're competent. Your money should be inside that circle too." That's this week's page Breaker preview. To pre-order my final word on stock picking shaped by three decades of success just type Rule Breaker Investing into amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, or wherever you shop for fine books. Thank you to everyone who's pre-ordered, that means a lot to me. That's halftime.
The score is Emily four, Andy one. Let's move on to Stock Number 6. Emily, earlier, we got your impressions of Jason Statham, such as it was, Crickets.
Emily Flippen: Crickets.
David Gardner: Gal Gadot.
Emily Flippen: Slightly less crickets.
David Gardner: Let's continue surveying your Hollywood affinity.
Emily Flippen: Oh, no.
David Gardner: I'm going to try a name out on you and let's play the word association game. I'm going to say this Hollywood actor's name, and then you give me your very first word or phrase that comes to your mind when you hear it. You ready?
Emily Flippen: Sounds good.
David Gardner: Leonardo DiCaprio.
Emily Flippen: Titanic.
David Gardner: Did you know he's 50-years-old? No. He just turned 50?
Emily Flippen: No.
David Gardner: Just at the end of last year. Titanic? Anything else come to mind? Leonardo DiCaprio. I'm not even asking movie titles. Is he a great actor?
Emily Flippen: I would imagine so. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw him in a movie recently. I have seen Titanic, although that was pre-my generation.
David Gardner: Yes.
Emily Flippen: I'm thinking about wasn't he in Romeo and Juliet? Also pre-my generation.
David Gardner: He follows along with Martin Scorsese quite a bit.
Emily Flippen: That explains it, then my lack of knowledge.
David Gardner: Was Wolves of Wall Street a Scorsese film?
Emily Flippen: Of course.
David Gardner: There's a number of others in recent. Didn't start that way. My recollection is Scorsese did not do the Titanic. Pretty sure about that. Pretty sure it's James Cameron. But I'm thinking in particular of his 2004 movie, Andy, Emily., I haven't seen it, The Aviator. Andy, you're nodding your head.
Andy Cross: Yes.
David Gardner: Did you enjoy The Aviator?
Andy Cross: Story of Howard Hughes? Yes. Very good.
David Gardner: Howard Hughes you mentioned. Howard Hughes Holdings, ticker simple HHH is Stock Number 6. Two other words for you I could have asked are Bill Ackman for anybody's impressions there. We'll talk about that in a sec.
But turning to you now, Emily, Howard Hughes Holdings, The Aviator, 2004, DiCaprio, by the way, did not win for that movie. Cape Blanchette won for supporting actress for that movie. It did receive five Academy Awards Oscars that year. But forget about all that stuff. Ticker symbol, they got three Hs going on here, HHH, Howard Hughes Holdings. Emily, you don't look confident.
Emily Flippen: I have to say, if you have to add that many Hs to your taker symbol, surely, you're compensating for something. In my mind, this has to be a small market cap. I have quite literally until this moment, never heard of this company. In fact, I'm checking to make sure it's not April Fool's Day, and we're not just making up names of businesses here.
David Gardner: Not yet.
Emily Flippen: [laughs] I'm going to go with the slightly wider, but small range in terms of market cap of something like 1-7 billion.
David Gardner: One billion dollars to $7 billion for Howard Hughes Holdings. Their ticker symbol is just the acronym of the company. There's some justification for all those Hs. Andy, players at home, Emily said one billion to seven billion. First of all, Andy, any thoughts just about Howard Hughes or the company named after him?
Andy Cross: I followed this company many years ago. It's a real estate company, and now Bill Ackman's trying to buy it or merge with it with Ackman, his company.
David Gardner: Pershing Square.
Andy Cross: Pershing Square.
David Gardner: Hedge fund guy.
Andy Cross: We released it on a different ticker on different exchange, and I've not followed up on it, though. However, with that wide of a range, I do think it is sub 10 billion-ish, and I'm going to agree with Emily. Also, I'm down four to one, so why wouldn't I agree with a person who's really just handed it to me today?
David Gardner: There could be logic there. Player at home, do you want to agree with that logic, agreeing with Andy, agreeing with Emily, or do you want to disagree? Well, if you agree, give yourself a plus one. Andy, two, Emily, four plus one for you, Andy, it's $3.66 billion. Emily, right about the midpoint of your range. Bill Ackman, the longtime hedge fund manager, said he wants to turn Howard Hughes Holdings into a "modern day Berkshire Hathaway". That is his wild proposal. If he were to do, let's say, even one-tenth of that, people are going to get to know the HHH ticker symbol a lot better in future years. Andy, do you remember Ackman shorted Herbalife? Remember that?
Andy Cross: I do. 2017.
David Gardner: Very publicly.
Andy Cross: He took $1 billion short position against Herbalife. He made quite a big deal about it. Very public. And that was his MO. Not quite as much. He's a little bit more into different things this day. But yes, back then, he was very publicly short and aggressively and it went up for a while, and it was volatile.
David Gardner: I don't think many people follow Herbalife anymore. I needed to look this up. Ticker symbol, I think HLF it's now below $1 billion. This is a company losing relevance in any kind of currency in our modern era, 2025. Anyway, Ackman owns a lot of Chipotle these days. Yet, I think we have a lower cost basis than wherever Ackman would have entered a hedge fund guys tend to jump in and jump out quite a lot more than I think most of us should. Rick Munarriz picked Chipotle at $1.21 split adjusted in January 2007. I don't know, memo to Ackman. Check your cost basis. I think we're winning. Thank you, Rick, Munarriz. But speaking of winning, Andy, you got one back. The comeback is on.
Let's move to stock number seven. Andy, really simple question for you to start this one. Where are we broadcasting from today? Alexandria, Virginia. That is true. Stay with me another minute. What is a common two word phrase that people would use when they're talking about land with a building on it? This land and this building. What's the phrase that starts with an R? Real estate. Alexandria, real estate. Last one for you, Andy. The work that we do from this Alexandria, real estate, it deals with stocks, shares, ownership, holdings. What's the synonym for stocks? Give me the right answer, and I'll stop bothering you.
Andy Cross: Companies?
David Gardner: Close, but not quite. Starts with an E.
Andy Cross: Equities.
David Gardner: Excellent. Andy, you have just said the name of stock number 7, Alexandria Real Estate Equities. The ticker symbol is ARE. Do you know anything about this?
Andy Cross: All I know is the Ticker symbol is ARE. That's it, because I always think that's funny just with our ARE Yeah.
David Gardner: ARE, Alexandria Real Estate Equities is stock number 7. Let's cut right to the chase here, Andy. What is your stated market cap range for Alexandria real estate equities, Ticker symbol ARE?
Andy Cross: I'm going to say 4-10 billion. I'm following Emily's playbook by going a little wider.
David Gardner: Starting to widen the ranges a little bit. I will say, and I said this to you both offline before we started having fully prepared the show ahead of time and randomizing the stocks from the full 500, 500 of the most popular stocks with our members. I just randomized two numbers each time for each of the 10 slots, and I just decide, which is the more interesting stock. Having done that for this whole show and I still know what's coming, I would say this is maybe the single most brutally difficult market gap game show I have ever produced, and it's for you both for our world championships. It seems like that's OK.
Andy Cross: Well, that's a reason why Emily's beating me so badly.
David Gardner: Diabolically humble. Well said, Andy, let me turn back to you now, Emily and players at home. Andy said $4 billion to $10 billion for ARE.
Emily Flippen: I can't squash this little voice in my head that screams every single time anybody says anything that I should just disagree with them for no reason, right? And similarly to what I think Andy is implying here, I am not overly familiar with Alexandria real estate equities, other than their ticker symbol, which I've always enjoyed. But when you hear real estate, surely, we're talking bigger, and for some reason, and I cannot squash that little voice in my head that just screams at me to disagree all the time, and for the risking it for the Bisk at. Again, I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Emily has disagreed. What about you at home? You did that. Give Emily a plus one because it is bigger than Andy was thinking it is outside Andy's range, $16.93 billion for this real estate investment trust that carries the score to Emily five, Andy two. We're in Alexandria, sitting on real estate talking equities. This is kismet. This needed to happen, but I will admit I didn't know that much about this company.
Andy Cross: I do not know really much about this company at all except for the symbol.
Emily Flippen: Well, I know Matt Argersinger is probably angry that he wasn't given Alexandria Real Estate Equities on his market Gap Game show.
David Gardner: I think you're right about that. Just to correct any misconceptions here, this company is actually based in Pasadena, California. It has nothing to do with Alexandria Virginia. If you go to the website, you'll see they just love the classical library of Alexandria ancient Egypt. That's the allure for them of Alexandria real estate equities. It's a REIT. That means it's required to pay 90% of its taxable income each year out as dividends. As a consequence, it has about a 5.5% dividend yield. This company focuses on corporate campuses for life science companies. A lot of pharma, a lot of biotechs, a lot of California in this portfolio. Also, not the best business these days.
Here at Fool HQ, we've kept one floor of a building. We used to have four floors in. That's where our studios are today. Commercial real estate a little bit under siege still in our society. And if you're building out corporate campuses for big life science companies. I mean, I guess people do have to go into the labs. You can't mail it in white collar worker from home unless I don't know, maybe you're like, their marketing person.
Emily Flippen: I'm now having flashbacks, and I'm kicking myself because as you're talking, I'm remembering, I believe Alexandria Real Estate Equities was a recommendation earlier in the days of Blast off, our growth oriented portfolio here at The Fool, which has since been retired.
David Gardner: You're right.
Emily Flippen: I remember a lot of the thesis was that life sciences still requires a physical footprint to complete so much of what they do, not to the extent of it maybe needed historically. But certainly, where the fear over commercial real estate was maybe a little bit overblown with a lot of their clients.
David Gardner: Wasn't just Blast off 2022, although it was dividend investor, as you might imagine, also had this stock. This has not been a great stock pick. Just to look back over the last 10 years, 2015-2021, it went from $100 to $200 a share. You still have that dividend yield. You're feeling great. 2022 to 2025, it's gone back from 200 back to $100 a share. Again, it still has that yield. Who knows what the future holds? I think we're at an unstable place right now where we're not really sure. In the same way, we can't figure out whether college sports should be fully professional or not. This is very confusing March Madness this year for a lot of fans.
I also think as a society, we're trying to figure out what is the meaning of being at work. Well, one thing we're cleared about Emily five, Andy two. Now, Andy, by math, it looks to me like you're going to need to get these next three, and I'm not going to put pressure on you anymore than you're already feeling as we move on to stock number eight, Emily. I'm not one of those people who tries to make puns a lot of the time. This is maybe my one pun for 2025. You ready?
Emily Flippen: I've been prepared for this my entire life.
David Gardner: Excellent. Emily, after that last one that last stock, are you feeling Reedy for more?
Emily Flippen: I guess I am.
David Gardner: Yes, you are. Alexandria Real Estate Equities, as I mentioned, is a REIT. Now, it's nowhere near Fool HQ. But one of this real estate hospitality company's noteworthy properties is, Emily, have you ever been over to National Harbor here in the DC area right across the river in Maryland?
Emily Flippen: I have. We actually had Fool Posa there last year.
David Gardner: I knew you had. Gaylord National Resort and Convention Center is one of Ryman Hospitality Properties Properties. Ticker symbol RHP. It has a casino over there. Does that have any allure for you casinos?
Emily Flippen: It really doesn't. I can find so many creative ways to lose money in different ways. I guess.
David Gardner: More fun.
Emily Flippen: More fun ways.
David Gardner: Pulling a one armed bandit. Or just rolling dice and watching your money go away. Well, that's a small part of this company's business. It's a storied history. We'll talk about that in a sec. But more to the point, it's the Market Cap Game Show, Emily, what is your stated market cap range for Ryman, that's R-Y-M-A-N. People in Nashville, Tennessee know how to spell this Ryman Hospitality Properties, ticker symbol RHP.
Emily Flippen: Not going to speak too much as to not give Andy any hints here. I'm going to say 10-20 billion.
David Gardner: Ten billion dollars to $20 billion. Andy, have you ever been to the Grand Ole Opry?
Andy Cross: I have David years and years ago when we were looking at Vanderbilt.
David Gardner: That's awesome. One of my kids went to Vanderbilt, and that's how I got to know Nashville. I've really enjoyed my visits to Nashville. He's now graduated, but it's a beautiful place and a beautiful school.
Andy Cross: It is. It's fantastic. My dad loves country music. I was really not so much into it, but he was, and I love my dad, so that's great.
David Gardner: Ten billion dollars $20 billion is what Emily said.
Andy Cross: I am really torn here, Tim, because agreeing with Emily just in general was always a good thing to do, but this one just seems a little bit just one that we don't know very well. He's, I don't I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: I won't say yet what that means, but I would like to put on. Emily went with big round numbers.
Emily Flippen: It's a dead giveaway, isn't it?
David Gardner: Ten to 20. Throw us an 11 or maybe a 10.5 or something. Blair's at home. Andy disagreed with Emily's range, 10-20 billion. What are you going to do? If you disagree, give yourself plus one because Emily overestimated the size of Ryman Hospitality Properties by about a factor of $5.73 billion market cap for Ryman Hospitality Properties. Let me just read the one paragraph take.
This might have been off Wikipedia when I was doing this research last night or off the company's website, but it's just fun sometimes to understand to hear the stories of businesses. So Ryman Hospitality Properties headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee, is a real estate investment trust specializing in upscale hotels and entertainment venues. Its origins traced back to 1925 with the founding of WSM Radio and the Grand Ole Opry. In 1983, the company, then known as Gaylord Entertainment, acquired WSM, bringing the Grand Ole Opry and Associated businesses under its umbrella. Over time, Gaylord Entertainment expanded into hospitality, constructing large convention hotels like the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center. In 2012, the company sold the Gaylord Hotels brand. Management rights to Marriott, restructured then as a real estate Investment Trust and rebranded as Ryman Hospitality Properties, retaining ownership of its properties and iconic assets like the Grand Ole Opry and Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, Tennessee.
Andy Cross: Stories are so fascinating. This is why as business focused investors, it's just great to get under those you learn so many things. I do have to say, I just have never, ever looked at this company, so that was a pure gas sampling.
David Gardner: We've had many a Fool event right over there at National Harbor for members and sometimes for ourselves. We're walking around the product and kicking the tires a little bit, but I agree with you, Andy. I needed to do my research. I didn't realize, for example, this company started in 1925. That's exactly 100 years ago today, and I, too, love to geek at about corporate histories. I I'm sad that so much history taught in schools at every level is largely about, like, why did World War II start or memorize the presidents? We're missing, to me, the opportunity to teach our kids the incredible iconic stories of things like the Grand Ole Opry or Apple.
I think there should be 8-10 corporate histories that everybody knows growing up in the United States of America that tells the story of diversity. It tells the story of risk. It tells the story ultimately of enterprise and success. The vast majority of the United States of America is private sector, not public sector. I think that's a strength that always has been of our society. I do think enterprise, for me, anyway, would be one of America's five core values. Let's teach these corporate histories. I'm glad that you enjoy geeking out with it as well, Andy. Let's return to the game show now. I will mention, by the way, stock's up 50% of the past ten years. Alexander real estate equities, last 10 years? 0%.
Little bit of a lower yield, 4.9% for Ryman. Spoiler alert. There will be no more reads in this episode of the Market Cap Game Show. Few. Stock Number 9, Andy, does it make a difference to you today when you see a stock is listed on the New York Stock Exchange versus the NASDAQ?
Andy Cross: Between those two, it does not.
David Gardner: Did it ever?
Andy Cross: Not really.
David Gardner: I think you're like me and like many investors, these days, especially maybe in contrast to 30 or 40 years ago. What's the ticker symbol? Because I need to do that to put in my buy order. Back in the day, Andy, as you'll remember, most NASDAQ companies would have four digit ticker symbols, and New York Stock Exchange would be 1, 2, or 3. Now it's kind of intermixed, and it's all a little confusing. I'm not sure individual investors care anymore, but I'll tell you this, the New York Stock Exchange is pretty competitive with the NASDAQ and vice versa. So somebody cares.
In fact, I was just checking, if you were to say, what's the value of the NASDAQ brand versus the New York Stock Exchange, brand, if you're actually thinking about these companies, because both of them are publicly traded companies, you might start doing what I did little research here and say, well, out of curiosity, like, how is the New York Stock Exchange Composite Index performed against the NASDAQ Composite Index? Because while you and I may not care about HHH being on whatever exchange these days, nevertheless, brand association, you're a this company versus that could matter.
We're going to talk about the performance of the NASDAQ composite versus New York Stock Exchange composite in a minute. But more to the point, Andy Cross, NASDAQ is a public company. The ticker symbol is NDAQ, and that is Stock Number 9. Now, Andy, you're down 5-3. You need this one, too. I'm wondering what you think the market cap ranges that you're comfortable with for NASDAQ, ticker symbol NDAQ.
Andy Cross: Goodness gracious. These all start to blend together, these exchanges. NDAQ, I'm going to say between 70-$90 billion.
David Gardner: Seventy billion to $90 billion. Emily, have you ever bought or sold a NASDAQ stock?
Emily Flippen: I definitely have. Unlike Andy, I do have some internal biases, and not for or against in terms of quality, but I imagine NASDAQ, in my mind, is just tech heavy. I don't know if that is still necessarily the case the way it was, you know, even just a few years ago but I imagine New York Stock Exchange. They're the well rounded, diversified, solidly profitable, slower growing companies. NASDAQ, that's where the wild stuff happens. I'm sure that's not how it happens in reality, but that's how it happens in my head.
David Gardner: I found myself nodding generally throughout. Emily, Andy said 70 billion to $90 billion. Do you want to agree with his range or disagree with his range?
Emily Flippen: I know the NASDAQ is wild, but that might be a wildly high market cap estimate in my mind. I don't know why I'm imagining its market cap is smaller, but I am. Again, the biscuits have worked, so I'm going to disagree.
David Gardner: Emily has disagreed. What about you, player at home? We have a new world champion of the Market Cap Game Show, because no matter what Andy does with number 10, although Andy, we always say, people tend to remember that last one. You have an opportunity to immortalize yourself with Stock Number 10, but Emily was correct. It is a smaller company. NASDAQ has $42.10 billion, $42 billion enterprise. By the way, female CEO, which is always worth pointing out, especially in once was. Anyway, kind of a Wall Street Old Boys network, but Adena Friedman has done an excellent job. In fact, I recommended this stock shortly after she became CEO in 2017. Happy to say it's up 325% for our Stock Advisor members.
The real question, though, is, I mentioned earlier, New York composite versus NASDAQ composite. Just for the fun of it, if you count from 25 years ago, and those who've been around for a while, as investors remember that March of 2025 years ago, was a major peak for the markets. I think the NASDAQ touched over 5,000 that month and slid badly in the succeeding years, but it's just sort of fun to note that over the last 25 years, the New York Stock Exchange composite is up 200%, and the NASDAQ composite is up 275%. It has outperformed even after a huge dip initially. Worth adding as well, maybe just the last decade, the NASDAQ composite up 250%. The New York stock exchange composite up 75%. Now, the real question, though, friends, and Fools everywhere is, has NASDAQ outperformed the NASDAQ? At least for the stock pick that we made in 2017, very happy to say, yes, the NASDAQ itself is up 250% over the last eight years. NASDAQ stock NDAQ up 325%. Headliner, from this week's world championship, NASDAQ has outperformed the NASDAQ.
Andy Cross: Well, this is one where I clearly thought the brand bigger than the business. But still, 40-$50 billion company is still an outstandingly large enterprise in this world, and it speaks to the innovation that NASDAQ has brought to the.
David Gardner: You're right. If you look up Adena Friedman on YouTube, I think the number 1 hit these days is a video she did on Bloomberg just a few months ago. She's there with the Bloomberg guy and Alex Rodriguez, A Rod of baseball fame. She's pitching them on the idea that more sports teams should go public. Now, that obviously would help NASDAQ's business. Why not IPO on the NASDAQ? But she's like, fans should be owning a part of their teams, far more than has existed in society today. She's out there. She's done a great job. By the way, for people who are div inclined, 1.5% dividend yield, as well, for winning stock.
Well, we're about to move on to Stock Number 10, but let me just mention that if great stocks that outperform are your conversation, and if you're ready to take your investing chops to the next level, head over to www.fool.com/signup to join Motley Fool Stock Advisor. That's our flagship Investing Service, which covers, among many stocks, NASDAQ. As a Stock Advisor member, you're going to get two new stock picks each month, rankings of a whole scorecard of companies and access to all episodes of our premium podcast Stock Advisor Roundtable. That show, by the way, only available to premium Motley Fool members. It focuses on Foolish recommendations, takes a deeper dive into the businesses we cover, featuring Fool analysts like the ones you're getting to enjoy today. By the way, my brother Tom also appears regularly on bonus episodes of Stock Advisor Roundtable to discuss what's new in the Stock Advisor universe and to answer questions sent in from Motley Fool members. Get started investing the Foolish way today, www.fool.com/signup.
The score is Emily six, Andy, three, and yet, Andy, as we talked about, people may tend to remember just this one even more than the world. I don't know. We'll see. Stock Number 10, Emily, turning to you, when I say this phrase, $0 revenues. Speaking about a public company. First off, have you ever owned or recommended these types of development stage companies?
Emily Flippen: No, not that I care remember of. Pre-revenue companies are just one step too far, even for me.
David Gardner: Do you find yourself interested at all?
Emily Flippen: Sometimes. I can love concepts, but I view that as my version of going to the casino. It's gambling money. At that point, I'm making a bet, not an investment.
David Gardner: Well, Viking Therapeutics, headquartered in San Diego, California, is a clinical stage biopharma company dedicated to developing novel therapies for metabolic and endocrine disorders. Now, the company's pipeline includes VK, that would be for Viking, presumably, VK2735, which is targeting obesity and metabolic disorders. Now, there are lots of things targeting obesity these days. We'll talk about this more in a minute, but it's shown promising results in early clinical trials, $0 revenues for the most part here, Emily. What is your stated market cap range for Viking Therapeutics, ticker symbol VKTX?
Emily Flippen: I'm going to do something a little fun here, since I have nothing to lose at this point.
David Gardner: It's true.
Emily Flippen: I'm actually pretty familiar with this company because not too long ago in Stock Advisor, we took a second look at Novo Nordisk, another weight loss oriented GLP-1 based drug company that you had initially recommended, David, a number of years ago, back when the narrative was diabetes, not weight management. Viking Therapeutics, I have recently looked into as a potential up and coming competitor to Eli Lily, Novo Nordisk, those other GLPs.
David Gardner: Wegovy, Ozempic, all of these big brands these days.
Emily Flippen: Exactly. Viking Therapeutics is trying to be next. I'm not 100% sure. I'm fairly confident about where its market cap may be, and I'm going to give a tight range that will now force Andy to figure out exactly where he falls in it. If I'm just barely missing it, if I'm massively missing it or if it's within the range. I'm going to say 3-$3.43 billion.
David Gardner: Three billion to $3.43 billion, taking it out to two decimals after being roundly criticized for Round Numbers 10-20 early in the show.
Emily Flippen: Well, I had the crisis to face about halfway through there. I started with three, and then I thought to myself, why not go whole hog?
David Gardner: Well, I admire that you've done that. I love that You're right. You have nothing to lose. Andy, in some senses, you have nothing to lose either. Have you ever looked at Viking therapeutic?
Andy Cross: No. Actually, I believe it's a relatively recent rerecommendation. I should have studied it, but we have a new world champion. I'm a partner with Emily in so many things we work on here in the Motley Fool. If she's going tight, and if she wins in this last question, I want to win, and if she goes down in flames, I want to go down in flames. I'm going to agree with Emily on the tight range for Viking Therapeutics.
David Gardner: She said three billion to $3.43 billion. Now, Andy has agreed. Player at home, what do you think? That's what you Think. If you agreed with Emily and Andy, give yourself a plus one. Andy, you get that plus one, even though Emily demonstrated, I would say, outstanding cognition, recog, pre-cog, I'm not even sure what you just did. It's 3.40 billion dollar.
Emily Flippen: No it's not.
David Gardner: Just under your 3.43, very tight range, the high end of your range. That was a remarkable call, especially for somebody who said she doesn't really look at pre-revenue companies.
Emily Flippen: No. But as a competitor to a company that is, I know, a $200 billion plus recommendation. I know it's important to keep an eye out for who could be that next up and coming entrant in this space. There is so much competition that king therapeutics for better or worse has been one I've been keeping my eye on. That being said, I knew it was somewhere around three billion. I had no clue to the positive or negative around there. That was just shear luck.
David Gardner: That was remarkable, and Andy, great call. Players at home, again, if you agree, give yourself a plus one. Our final score is Emily six, Andy four. Of course, we're very curious what your final score was, dear listener. I'm confident there's at least one person out there. They could put their hand up on social media and say, I actually had seven plus. If that's true, you can give yourself a world champions ring. Now, not as attractive or heavy as the crown we'll be handing Emily shortly or the gaudy oversized ring that Andy's going to have to remove from his hand and put onto yours, Emily. But congratulations to Emily Flippen. Let's just close it down on Viking Therapeutics. Company, by the way, has about $900 million in the bank. It's burning less than 100 million a year right around there. You can see, even though they don't have revenue or income yet, they've got enough of a balance sheet to a burn rate low enough that they can go for a while. Carl Teal, on our Rule Breakers team recommended the stock in January at 32. It's 29 now. Everything's down from January. But he was identifying, especially, I would even say, is this getting overcrowded? The obesity market.
But he said, you know what this company's doing is those are all injected. Those are all shots that you're taking. This company can turn its solution into an oral pill. Interesting comedy to follow. I knew nothing about it until I randomized the ticker symbol, VKTX, and it became Stock Number 10. Well, that was a lot of fun. I really enjoy March every year. As a college basketball fan, I've always loved it. But as a market cap game show fan, these last couple of marches had been really special. I want to thank you both for doing a couple of episodes with me this month. You won your first one and then came to this one for the World Championship. I'm going to turn to you, Andy. Do you have a last parting line before you go.
Andy Cross: This is one of the greatest accomplishments in my life to be the champion for the past year, and I thoroughly enjoyed traveling around the country and, yes, meeting with hunting tape and meeting with so many great people, fellow investors out there. But I am very happy to pass the crown and to a great champion in Emily, and congratulations to her.
David Gardner: Very gracious. Emily, a last line from you.
Emily Flippen: Well, this is very kind from Andy. I'll take my moment of glory, though. I will say, again, that little voice in the back of my head is reminding me that the only way to go from here is down.
David Gardner: [laughs] Well, thank you, both, but Andy and Emily and I know that we're not playing this game for each other. We're playing it for you. How did you score, dear Fool, dear listener at home? We hope that you outscored all of us. The purpose of the market cap game show, and especially of March Market Cap Madness is to make more popular. Now, I'm never going to say as nationwide popular as I don't know, basketball tournaments or the Super Bowl, but to make more popular market caps, the real value of stocks on the market that most people don't understand. Most people are just looking at the price per share of the stock. They don't really see the market cap.
But now you do because you just listened to us for an hour, maybe even for a whole month, talking about market caps, and I hope you scored at least a few points this week and maybe beat one or both of our competitors, Andy, Emily, you both acquitted yourselves so well, you've helped make the world smarter, happier, and richer. Emily, congratulations. I see Andy removing the ring. It's really oversized, and I can't even lift the crown across the table here at studios. We'll have to do that afterwards. But a Foolish high five for me. In addition to the ring in the crown. For the year 2025 and raining, until this time. Next year, you are the Market Cap Game Show World Champion. Andy, Emily, thank you both. Fool on.
Emily Flippen: Fool on.
Andy Cross: Fool on.
Emily Flippen: As always, people on this program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. Don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. Learn more about Rule Breaker Investing at rbi.fool.com.
Andy Cross: I am now going to eat my piece of humble pie. My humble 3.145
John Mackey, former CEO of Whole Foods Market, an Amazon subsidiary, is a member of The Motley Fool's board of directors. Andy Cross has positions in Amazon, Apple, Berkshire Hathaway, Booking Holdings, Chipotle Mexican Grill, PubMatic, and Wix.com. David Gardner has positions in Amazon, Apple, Berkshire Hathaway, and Booking Holdings. Emily Flippen, CFA has positions in Peloton Interactive. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Alexandria Real Estate Equities, Amazon, AppLovin, Apple, Applied Materials, Berkshire Hathaway, Booking Holdings, Chipotle Mexican Grill, Howard Hughes, Kinder Morgan, Peloton Interactive, PubMatic, Twilio, and Wix.com. The Motley Fool recommends Braze, Nasdaq, Novo Nordisk, Ryman Hospitality Properties, and Viking Therapeutics and recommends the following options: short March 2025 $58 calls on Chipotle Mexican Grill. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
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